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BetterHuman.org Weblog |
Welcome to the BetterHuman.org Weblog. Please read this very important excerpt from my book, Meme, as it also applies to the contents of this weblog. If you'd like to be notified of weblog updates, or wish to contact us directly with compliments, criticisms, or especially corrections, please visit our Contact Us page, where you'll also see a list of frequently-asked questions. If you are looking for specific keywords in this weblog, be sure to use your browser's 'find' function. Also, I'll apologize in advance if some weblog entries seem abrupt, but in the interest of conciseness I've often been forced to remove large portions of submitter's emails, and this will occasionally make my response appear inordinately potent.
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Topics on this page:
#226 - Musical atheists - Dec 03, 2006, 11:09 AM
#227 - Kudos - Dec 10, 2006, 10:32 AM
#228 - Gratitude - Dec 30, 2006, 11:28 AM
#229 - Disconnected - Dec 30, 2006, 11:32 AM
#230 - The damage wrought of 'political correctness' - Dec 30, 2006, 11:39 AM
#231 - Non choice - Dec 30, 2006, 11:46 AM
#232 - Frictionless bether - Dec 30, 2006, 11:50 AM
#233 - Enslaved to Mother Nature - Dec 30, 2006, 11:54 AM
#234 - About agnosticism - Dec 30, 2006, 02:40 PM
#235 - BetterHuman.org's financial motivations - Jan 06, 2007, 09:34 AM
#236 - Separating communism from atheism - Jan 13, 2007, 10:50 AM
#237 - Conveniently overlooking - Jan 13, 2007, 10:52 AM
#238 - Is only one choice, a choice? - Jan 13, 2007, 10:54 AM
#239 - Choice is part of fate - Jan 13, 2007, 10:56 AM
#240 - Never be afraid to ask questions - Jan 13, 2007, 11:00 AM
#241 - Freeing Meme - Jan 17, 2007, 10:10 PM
#242 - Good decisions - Jan 27, 2007, 08:01 PM
#243 - Diminutive atheists - Jan 27, 2007, 08:05 PM
#244 - The power of prayer... - Jan 27, 2007, 08:08 PM
#245 - Death defying - Jan 27, 2007, 08:18 PM
Click here to see next weblog page...
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#225 - Battle weary... - December 03, 2006, 11:07 AM |
Mr. Gullwret wrote:
> First of all, congratulations on your website!
Fantastic. I'm always happy to have another like-minded friend.
> I have already read enough of the weblog to see the various types of feedback you are receiving, I can only imagine how weary you must be getting, fighting what seems like a futile battle?
It's a passion for me so I do get enormous reward for my efforts, but ultimately I don't believe it's a futile pursuit, just colossal...and I love a challenge.
> It is only recently that I am becoming really passionate about trying to deliver and communicate a non-theistic message to the people around me.
Excellent, and this is undoubtedly due to your recognition that 'changing' humankind for the better is a proactive pursuit, and unless we all participate, nothing will ever change. Great to be working with you.
> There are a couple of reasons why it is more important than ever right now to do something about the problem of religious dogma that is rapidly spreading in a world where there is an ever greater emphasis on 'religious freedom'.
This has the ultimate purpose of attempting to 'quell' the festering incongruency between differing faiths but it's merely a deception ploy that delays the inevitable clashes that still and will always occur. When a religion proclaims the need for religious tolerance, they are only talking about toward themselves; not toward other religions. It is in the nature of religions to continuously recruit or condemn as it spreads virus-like and as such there can be no such thing as 'mutual' religious tolerance, for that would require abstaining from recruiting each other's members, and refraining from criticizing each other's pursuits, which of course, they'll never do.
Any religion's purports of 'religious tolerance' is merely just another survival tactic of the religious meme-virus. They purposely leverage the blind momentum of 'political correctness' to be able to liken 'religious tolerance' to that of 'racial tolerance' in the hope that they can manipulate perceptions of religious intolerance to carry the same default shame caveat associated with racism, but the reality is that 'religious tolerance' is actually only parallel to 'drug-dealer tolerance', for which I doubt there'd be much support.
> One, tackling the problem of our next generation; how do we start getting information out to young and still-malleable minds so they can make fully educated decisions on whether or not there are ethereal beings?
BetterHuman.org is currently the most effective solution I've been able to come up with. Anything larger, however, will require far more proactive participation from the atheistic masses.
> Secondly, building a critical mass of like-minded thinkers that can offer non-theistic support and most importantly attract others - safety and validity through sheer volume (hmmm....the 'non-cult cult'?).
Again, this will take proaction on all atheists' part. No longer can we passively allow our society to continue deeply immersing themselves in ethereal addiction. It's an ancient mental illness of epic proportions that we, as atheists, and more as human beings, need to take responsibility for curing, for we are the only ones that can see the disease. We all need to play a role. The afflicted will never be able to help themselves.
Also, I'm glad you've identified that atheism is a 'non-cult' because it is very important that people break away from the misguided pursuit of 'identity affiliation' when it comes to philosophy. Most religious people have been told how to think for their entire lives and it cripples them into believing they need to 'belong' to something in order to find happiness and purpose.
My website and book attempt to teach people to break away from the 'we'll tell you what to think' organizations, and to start thinking for themselves. I'm also trying to teach atheists how to not 'isolate' religious people because we are not trying to polarize ourselves against them, we are trying to help them free their minds. We certainly can't accomplish that if the first thing we do is categorically separate ourselves from them by claiming to be part of a special collective that they aren't allowed to join because of their beliefs.
> may be a single individual but I am slowly converting close friends and family, we are determined to get this ball rolling!
Perfect. Even if you save just one person my friend, just try to grasp how profound of a difference you've just made in that person's life. It's absolutely staggering.
With much respect,
Sean Sinjin
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#226 - Musical atheists - December 03, 2006, 11:09 AM |
Mr. Lightbelt wrote:
> I just wanted to let you know that I really appreciated your website and decided to link it on my personal Blog. I have a band and the ideas our lyrics are based upon are directly linked with yours.
I always love the fact that atheism can connect such a broad spectrum of people, my brother. I've listened to some of your music and it has awesome power.
> Congratulations for your site and keep opening eyes and minds on your way!
Thanks for your generous support.
Kind regards,
Sean Sinjin
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#227 - Kudos - December 10, 2006, 10:32 AM |
Mr. Boundpast wrote:
> Finally some common sense and a true philosophy to live by! And well written common sense at that. Thanks.
Thanks for the kind supporting words my friend. Always nice to hear from congruent minds!
Regards,
Sean Sinjin
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#228 - Gratitude - December 30, 2006, 11:28 AM |
Mr. Zilgrate wrote:
> its real nice to know, there are people out there in our world. like betterhuman.it makes me feel good that this web site exists
Thank you so much for the kind words, and likewise, it's nice to know that people feel it is important that we do exist!
Please take care,
Sean Sinjin
{All letters from this contributor: 17.228, 23.337}
#229 - Disconnected - December 30, 2006, 11:32 AM
Mr. Catice wrote:
> To the question, "Do we really have free will?" you conclude with, "We are no more truly in control of ourselves than the clouds in the sky." If what you say is true, no one idea can be more true than any other, any more than the phenomenon of a bird can be more true than the phenomenom of a rock
You'll have to forgive me my friend, but I can't make sense out of the above whatsoever. You're trying to somehow describe a relationship between our lack of 'free will', to the completely unrelated notion of the credibility of perceptions. This would be the equivalent of saying that because the alarm clock went off, the shirt was both big and small.
> : it's all the inevitable outcome of mechanistic probabilities. So, what's the point of preaching godless humanism?
I'm as subject to the fate of the universe as anyone else is, and whether I really would want to or not, the universe has slated me for exposing religion as a pyramid scheme that preys (prays?) upon the innocent. Certainly you understand that I cannot alter my fate?
> Actually, I can have a lot of fun with with your presentation. Thanks!
{All letters from this contributor: 17.229, 17.239}
Most welcomed my friend.
Regards,
Sean Sinjin
{All letters from this contributor: 17.229, 17.239}
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#230 - The damage wrought of 'political correctness' - December 30, 2006, 11:39 AM |
This conversation started on an Internet blog site so please READ the beginning of our conversation first (you may have to scroll down a bit to find the beginning).
Then after reading that, you can follow the continuance of that conversation below.
Mr. Kitpund wrote back:
> It seems I misunderstood the whole oppression thing.
I'd be willing to accept that I insufficiently defined the BetterHuman.org portrayal and utilization of oppression. No fault of yours.
In regard to my statement:
"It's one of our core beliefs that 'just' is defined by the moral instincts, and is a consistent and definable term. We are not robots that can have their minds wiped and programmed from scratch"
You wrote:
> I think it is entirely possible to circumvent natural moralities
I absolutely agree with you. My point was to define the 'baseline' instinctual morality that is neither subjective nor malleable, albeit, they are usurpable.
> myself a neurologist, I would argue that those natural compulsions we have oft called morality no longer exist in the warped minds of say, Al-Qaeda.
I disagree. They're version of morality still primarily extends from the base instincts, but the wiring (learning) between their instincts and intelligence has been grossly skewed (beyond recognition to most of us) into a form that seems almost the antithesis, but, rest assured, they truly believe they are acting in noble and moral ways, ultimately stimulating those precise instincts. Please read near the end of this weblog entry 15.193
> It seems strange to suggest that governments can be 'varyingly totalitarian', as it is certainly a contradiction in terms; however, I think the point is still valid. The point being: at the heart of every government lies a desire to control that, with little exception, overrides more compassionate notions. I would like to believe that fledgling democracies would be, at least in some cases, contradictory to this idea. Truly believing so would likely be naïve.
Due to its mathematical tendency to empower the average person over the gifted and empathic, it's my opinion that traditional democracy inherently suffers from 'stunted leadership' problems, leading to amateur administration of the masses, and the inevitable invasive draconian measures needed to retain control over the resultant dissent. Tenet 25 of the BetterHuman.org tenets outlines a controversial form of democracy (called a meritdemocracy) that attempts to address the shortcomings of contemporary democracies.
In regard to my statement:
"This translates into, 'I don't care about others'."
You wrote:
> I disagree. Certainly I sympathize with their plight and wish they could find more constructive means by which to express themselves and wish they would stop causing self-harm. That said, I think to allow people to continue in whatever path they choose, no matter how absurd, is to respect their identity as an individual, thinking being.
My friend, would you apply this same logic to your child? Would you let your child engage in self-destructive behaviors? Of course not. So, even you don't believe in your statement above because you conveniently only apply it to 'strangers'. The only thing that distinguishes your child from a stranger is the degree of your concern for them, therefore, it is 'exactly' because you don't 'care' enough about that other person that you'd justify allowing them to continue their self-destructive behavior, citing your above 'hand-washing' logic.
Now, please believe me when I say that I'm not trying to demonize you personally, for this hand-washing is something we 'all' do; we are all guilty of turning a blind-eye to opportunities to help our fellow humans. I was perhaps a little overzealous in my prior response when I undeniably assigned the 'responsibility' for someone else's self-inflicted disintegration onto others. That's my empathic instinct overruling logic. In the spirit of being accurate, let me more precisely state we should promote the 'ideal' of responsibility for others (regardless of familiarity), and to treat everyone like your brother or sister, but, always within the limits of 'choice', as in, you can always choose to deny helping another.
My focus with your statement above isn't to chastise the decisive refraining from constructive interference in other's lives, it is to expose the real motivation obscured by the popularly-adopted 'respect others rights to self-destruct' caveat, and that truth is: we're lazy, we're denialists, and selfish, and we really don't want to make any sacrifices when someone else can't get their life together. Life's hard enough without having to carry the weight of a stranger. I certainly don't expect people to run out and start trying to save other people from self-destruction but I do want people to speak the truth about 'why' they won't do it. All I'm trying to accomplish here is the admittance that this disregard is selfishly motivated, and not the proclaimed 'respect for others choices'.
Why is it so important that we speak the truth about not caring much about others, instead of inventing convenient 'respect their rights to self-destruct' moral certitudes? Because, when you create this artificial 'respect' barrier, it takes hold as a popular excuse for many people 'not' to help others, and eventually it becomes an unspoken rule (better known as 'political correctness') that you 'can't' and 'shouldn't' help, even if you wanted to. This insincere display of 'respect for others', actually only serves to macro-dynamically block the people that need help, from the people that 'are' willing to help. Your convenient excuse to not help others, actually hurts them in the big picture.
Tell the truth: you don't care much about strangers, and that's why you wouldn't interfere with their self-destructive behaviors. There's nothing wrong with that, it just sounds like something callous and cold-hearted because the dogma of 'political correctness' says it is, which is nonsense. You are not intrinsically indebted with the duty to help others so don't feel guilty if you don't want to help, however, don't inadvertently 'hurt' them either by creating an obstructive artificial 'respect' barrier that really only serves to placate your guilty conscience.
> I have friends who engage in self-destructive behaviors (i.e. alcoholism, sexual promiscuity, and self-mutilation) that I actively discourage, because I care about them.
My point exactly
> But I make sure that I make no effort to inhibit them from making the choice themselves, also because I care about them.
I would argue that you are indeed doing your best to oppose your friend's activities within the realistic scope of your power to do so, which ultimately means that you really have no degree of 'tolerance' whatsoever for their self-destructive behaviors. The fact that you are physically incapable of curtailing their ability to continue doing said behaviors should not be mistaken as your 'tolerance' for their freedom to choose their demise, simply because in your mind you do 'not' tolerate it, you 'suffer' it. If you genuinely respected their rights to choose their path, you wouldn't outwardly oppose any of their pursuits in any way, verbal or otherwise.
> At this point I'm not really arguing, as I believe you feel similarly.
Largely, but I think there's a fundamental difference in our perception of responsibility for our fellow humans. That's not to say you are necessarily obligated to concern yourself with others, for that is entirely your choice, it's just my prerogative to expose to you how your manufactured rationale for disengaging from others can have sweeping repercussions that inhibit those that 'can' and 'will' help them. Take for example, what I'm trying to accomplish with BetterHuman.org: with your sweeping statement that we should 'respect another's choice to self-destruct', you'd effectively completely neutralize my ability to help people see the truth about the tyranny of religious mythology.
But my friend, before you get too upset with me for what must seem like a berating, you should know that if I came across a self-destructive stranger, I too would only go so far as to point them in the right direction and then continue on with my life. One can only make so many sacrifices of time and energy before losing their identity, and with what sacrifices for my fellow humans I am willing to make, I choose to focus the bulk of it through BetterHuman.org; it's all I can give at this time in my life. That being said, however, I would never placate my inaction-borne guilt by stating that we're 'not supposed' to help others, leveraging a bastardization of what 'mutual respect' might entail.
> I am attempting to formulate my own ideas on how such a government would have to operate. Perhaps by providing me with potentially relevant weblogs,
I have consolidated much weblog and extra-site material into the BetterHuman.org tenets. Please give them a read.
In regard to my statement:
"Please feel free to assert your astute scrutiny upon the remainder of BetterHuman.org, my friend, I greatly value your feedback."
You wrote:
> I feel as though the word 'asute' is used at my expense. Though it likely is not, if it were, I'd probably deserve it.
It was both sincere, and a double-edged sword, but please believe me my friend when I say that it was merely intended as a challenge for you to fulfill your obvious potential, and not to diminish your character.
With respect,
Sean Sinjin
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#231 - Non choice - December 30, 2006, 11:46 AM |
Mr. Endyet wrote:
> Okay, I am a Christian and I do not believe in what I believe in because I want to live forever.
My friend, this may seem to be true from your perspective simply because you cannot imagine a reality without a pending immortality; but be most certain that a great deal of your thoughts and actions are mitigated by the carrot of immortality hanging in front of you. To demonstrate, do you have the ability to look up at your god and scream, "As proof of my love for you, my lord, I deny my right of passage into heaven!" Of course you can't, for that would completely defeat the purpose of your life. It's impossible for you to willingly reject immortality, and therefore, it is something you 'need' because you 'do' want to live forever.
I suppose an argument can be made that even if your god didn't offer immortality, you might still believe in it, but (and please don't take offense to this, it's honestly a parallel analogy from my perspective) that hypothetical argument has as much value as arguing whether Santa Claus would still deliver presents if he didn't have any reindeer; there simply is no answer.
You god is 'defined' as being one with immortality, and as such they can be considered inseparable, and any hypothetical variations of your god's definition (e.g., no immortality) are quite moot in the light of their invalidity when contrasted to the ubiquitously-adopted version. This ultimately forces the concept of God to actually be synonymous with 'immortality', meaning that they are the same thing. So, in conclusion, your belief in God 'is' due to the fact that, as demonstrated above, you 'need' immortality.
> It is because I have seen and heard the glory of God.
My friend, the above is nothing more than poetry unless you substantiate it. Can you elaborate?
> I worship God because I want to not because he or anyone else forces me to.
'Force' is a tricky word when used as above. You're implying that you are operating of your own free will, and that nobody is perhaps, physically, coercing you. However, there are many degrees of 'force'. One of the most easily overlooked and yet formidable forms of force is 'passive intimidation'. An example of this would be if someone told you they were going to punish you if you act/inact in a certain way. This effectively draws a 'line in the sand' that has consequences for being crossed and now it is left to you to decide whether to cross that line or not.
It sure seems like you have 'free-will' in the above situation, but what if the line you're not supposed to cross is the 'you will go to hell for betraying God' line? Again, it's your decision to cross the line or not, so on the surface it may appear to be within your 'free-will' to choose, but what I'm trying to expose here is that even 'passive intimidation' of this demonstrated form, is also a powerful form of 'force'. It's a little slippery in that you may 'believe' you have a choice, but there really isn't a choice whatsoever, for you would never cross the line. The fact that you believe you 'can' if you really really wanted to, doesn't change the fact that you never will, and effectively your choice has been reduced to staying where you are, which has the same net result of being 'forced'.
My friend, it's the threat of ethereal punishment, and the narcotic allure of immortality, that 'forces' you to believe in your god. You lost your 'free-will' to choose the moment you believed in the ethereal consequences for not complying, and it may take a lifetime for you to understand this unfortunate truth.
> I became a Christian because I wanted to there was no brain washing involved.
The term 'brain washing' is an often-exercised negative slant on what is really 'education'. From each other's perspective, we could easily accuse the other of being 'brain-washed', but this does nothing to constructively bridge the gap between us. Instead, I hope you will find it relevant that I too was once like you, deeply immersed in ethereal-addiction, and a most adamant proponent of it. I have been exactly where you are; but, over time, I continued to acquire knowledge that could not fit in the religious perspective, and eventually, for me, that mythological world popped out of existence, and I finally saw it for the dream it was.
I am awake now, and have been for many years, and I have learned the cold, hard truth: we are all going to die an eternal death some day, and there's nothing that can be done about it. It sounds harsh, painful, even terrifying, but trust me, confronting death is the beginning of life, and once you defeat that monster, your world can finally become the heaven you so desperately seek.
My friend, I have seen from your eyes, and then woke from that dream. Now, I will ask you to draw up the great courage necessary to see reality through my eyes. Please, take the time to read the entirety of the weblog so that you too can benefit from the many similar conversations that have already taken place.
> I have one question for you: Who says what is wrong and right? I ask because you have predetermined idea of what is wrong and what is right.
This question I have answered many times in the weblog, and that is: our morality is defined by the moral instincts that Mother Nature has endowed us with. These instincts allow us to band together in great numbers, leveraging the naturally selective function of 'strength in numbers'. 'Right' and 'wrong' are programmed into our instincts, and are immutable (albeit, they are also unfortunately overridable). Again, please review the weblog; I believe you will gain much from that exposure.
> To help speed the process up if you say "What ever dose not harm someone else?" I will respond like this "Who determines what is harmful to others?"
I believe a decision by consensus of the governing body (proposed in the BetterHuman.org tenets) could go a long way to altruistically defining these lines. It's a seemingly subjective line to draw, but I think there's a simple test that can draw a clear definition: don't do to others what you wouldn't want done to yourself; and if you are going to control others, be certain that this motivation is altruistically and intellectually founded with the single goal of improving the quality of life for the most people possible. That's about as clear as it gets, and I welcome any challenge or improvement to this definition.
Again, thanks for your very valuable and respectable feedback.
With respect,
Sean Sinjin
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#232 - Frictionless bether - December 30, 2006, 11:50 AM |
Mr. Sleevepull wrote:
> Well I was reading this "bether" thing and ok Im a physics student so I know my stuff fairly well. SO if this bether has a coefficient of 0.00 (meaning completely frictionless) then absolutely none of the fore you apllied on it would conver to force of friction.
You don't understand my bether theory very well my friend. Allow me to explain: when I state that bether is frictionless, it is in the context of a particle moving through it; similar to a small loop in a rope that you can 'roll' from one end of the rope to the other, simulating how it would move frictionlessly through bether. To experience 'friction' would entail multiple particles moving 'against' one another, not against open bether itself. The concept of 'friction' can only be used in the context of particles against particles.
> therefore nothing could hold it. you would hace to aplly a PERFECTLY perpendicular force to it and then MAYBE youd be able to compress it at the point where you apllied the pressure, but other than that you would have no other way of controlling.
It is extremely difficult to manipulate bether (such as creating particles, or gravity/magnetism fields, etc.) because our only control over bether is via already existing particles. For us to try to control open bether would be very difficult because all particles (our hands, our tools, etc.) just move through it like a wave moves through water. We can't scoop bether. It may be beneficial for you to read the bether theory a few more times until the concept sits better in your mind. It seems simplistic, but it's deceptively elaborate.
> Besides Eintsein already proved that matter (particles in you article) is simply captured energy 10,000,000,000,000,000J/kg infact E=MC squared
My friend, I'm not sure how this is supposed to conflict with my bether theory because all that this formula shows is the energy equivalent of a given mass, which is entirely compatible with bether. Particles are simply loops in bether, and, like a spring, they contain the energy that was used to create the loop. A perfect unfolding of this loop (by a collision with its anti-matter equivalent), would unleash the entirety of its energy, which is easily calculated by Einstein's famous formula.
> FYI airbags dont "randomly" expand, all the forces that acted to compress then, thus causing creases, etc... and a lot of other forces act to make it appear randon, there are just so many forces constuctivly and estructivly interfrering with each other that it only appears random to us.
I couldn't agree with you more, and if you had visited my glossary, you'd see that I've defined 'random' accordingly as:
"Random - No such thing; or, virtually impossible to predict"
...which precisely matches your point above.
> Im just reading through your site and noticing stuff like (not exact quotes but like) "Science can't explain magnetism, but my book can"
Well my friend, that's why exact quotes 'are' important, otherwise it's easy to twist important details out of their intended meaning. For example, science can't explain magnetism, which is true; they can measure it, predict it, and utilize it, but they can't explain it. However, the second part of your "quote" is entirely your fabrication because I never once said I 'can' explain magnetism. I have a 'theory', that 'tries' to explain it, but that's a million miles away from stating that I 'can' conclusively explain it. Please, before you make any further presumptions about the degree of my convictions, read the foreword excerpt from the very first page in my book, and pay special attention to where I clearly indicate that this book is a work of 'fiction' (a story), and that I truly believe there is no such thing as an absolute 'fact'. This should clear up any further misperceptions that I am overstepping my authority.
> and then stuff like "Religion was made mostly for the purpose of explaining the unesplainable" Uh hyppocracy I think so.
My very passionate friend, it's not religion's element of attempting to 'explain the unexplainable' that I'm attacking. The pursuit of knowledge is always a noble pursuit, if not one fraught with peril.
> To me this just looks like another "science-has-yet-again-disproved-religion-so-I'm-gonna-make-a-website-about-how-I-also-don't-belive-in-God" websites man.
Actually, it's more of a "science-can-now-explain-most-of-what-you-want-to-know-so-don't-be-afraid-of-reality-and-free-yourself-from-mythological-insanity" site.
> Youve got some interesting stuff and all but still you're right you can't disprove anyhting but you cant prove anything either.
In the context of science, no, nothing can be proven. In the context of a god, I can't disprove it exists to you, but I can help you disprove it to yourself. That's all I can promise.
> I hate 1 sided websites where people have arguments with themselves (and of course win with their premise), I don't think theology was quite what you were meant for my friend.
You're one-sided argument has been duly noted.
Please take care,
Sean Sinjin
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#233 - Enslaved to Mother Nature - December 30, 2006, 11:54 AM |
Mr. Banechart wrote back:
> What if happiness is a tool for sustaining our very existence (by which produces order, right?). Well we've evolved colossal intelligences, as such our cognitive abilities have increased parallel, (being just another parameter in the notion that a unified consciousness is a mere illusion we all helplessly subscribe to) But because of our ever-increasing intelligence, mother nature has inserted an elaborate, profound "aegis" (or virus, if you will)which keeps us blind, and subdued from the truth. ...This virus being: The pursuit of happiness, pleasure. ...This truth being: We are merely worker ants generating order for our queen (the universe)
A very keen observation my friend; and yes, we are being led around by our happiness buttons to perform for the greater plan of survival of the species. However, the aspect that most of us are blind to this prerogative isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'll explain below.
> I don't wanna be a slave, you know? This is how i feel in a way, An ill prisoner, sick from all of this strange commotion existing ubiquitously, like im dizzy... Is it incorrect to believe existence is very strange, a peculiar form of enslavement?
I think it's important to have a good definition of slavery to work with before your question can be answered, so let's give that a shot:
The lewd and yet contemporary definition of slavery implies forced servitude against one's will, for the benefit of an oppressor. This can be quite literal, such as someone bound by chains, forced to perform manual labor from which the oppressor capitalizes. Less lewd, and yet still slavery, would be our world of employment, which virtually forces the mass population to sacrifice a huge portion of their waking lives in the pursuit of making someone else rich; which is easily demonstrated by statistics showing the vast majority of the world's wealth is held by less than a tiny fraction of the population.
Another possible definition for slavery could be one in which people have been misled about what their actions will accomplish, such as with people's dedication and donations to their religions. This form of slavery relies on blindness to the truth, and submission to misinformation in order to be effective, and of course, it's all to benefit the collection plates of the churches.
With the above examples of slavery, there is a one commonality; that being the unwanton or oblivious efforts of one, benefiting another. This is how I would choose to define 'slavery'.
So now let's look at our relationship to Mother Nature. On the surface, it may appear to be another form of slavery because we are forced to exert tremendous effort to survive, we are programmed into thinking that our pursuit of happiness is what we want even though this pursuit is 'really' meant to propagate our species, and for the most part, we are oblivious to this whole process. It sure sounds like slavery.
But, it's missing a few things. First, who benefits from these actions? It certainly isn't Mother Nature; no, it's us; we are the ones that benefit from our instinctually-founded order-generating actions. We can't really consider ourselves enslaved to ourselves can we? Second, why are we forced to exert this energy anyway? Well, it we didn't, we'd all eventually die and become extinct. It may sound similar to a death-threat form of coercion, but again, in this case, 'you'd' be the one letting yourself die, not someone else; so again, we aren't enslaving ourselves are we? And the third and final point is: the law of conservation of energy. It takes energy to exist, and in order for you to have been created from raw materials by eons of evolution, a 'debt' of energy was paid on your behalf such that you might be alive today. For you to be able to fulfill that debt, you have been instinctually instructed to create more order (reproducing). Without these order-generating instructions in your ancient brain, the chain reaction of life would break, and life would be no more.
So you see my friend, life, and the impregnated instinctual goals that we all seek to fulfill, isn't slavery at all, it's a gift beyond comprehension, granted us by nature, with an easily fulfilled debt obligation that is laced with 'pleasure' and 'happiness' incentives for participation. Fulfilling this obligation only benefits 'us', and what a small price to pay in exchange for the opportunity to 'exist' and to be able to perceive this magnificent universe around us. A bargain at any cost.
For what Mother Nature gives us, paying her back by pursuing our programmed instinctual needs should never be thought of as slavery; it's just a 'fair' trade.
Kind regards,
Sean Sinjin
{All letters from this contributor: 4.43, 4.52, 4.57, 12.163, 17.233, 21.304}
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#234 - About agnosticism - December 30, 2006, 02:40 PM |
In regard to the BetterHuman.org welcome page definition:
"Agnosticism - A lack of choosing between being an atheist or a believer. Agnosticism is in itself not a perspective, it is an absence of a firm commitment to a perspective"
Mr. Latchtorn wrote:
> That is what you put in your homepage. And this is the first error, cos you say that an agnostic has no perspective or concrete point of view. Let me say that in the world are more Agnostics than Atheist, you are cheating about these people.
Agreed (although 'cheating' may be rather overzealous). I will alter it to be more accurate as below:
Agnosticism - A lack of choosing between being an atheist or a believer. Agnosticism is in itself not a perspective, it is merely the absence of a firm commitment to either atheism or believing in a god because it's assumed that the existence of a god cannot be proven or disproved.
> Let me say that atheism is a belief too, let me define the word belief: Belief: Idea o Ideas focused in explain points of view of human perceptions that has not a totally logical explanations. So your work is a belief too, cos no one in the world had proved If there are Gods or not, maybe you can, with logical points of view, dismount the bible, the torah, ot the coran, but no one person had proved the existence or not existence of a God, sou your movement is a belief too.
You couldn't be more incorrect my friend. Our perspective isn't founded on whether we can 'prove' something true or not, because we don't believe in absolute 'facts' in the first place. Our perspective is based upon probabilities, evidence, and logic. We don't say that God absolutely doesn't exist, we just assign it a near-zero probability of being true, so in essence, we actually incorporate 'all' possibilities into our perspective model. By your definition of 'belief' above, you insist that we incorporate ideas that have no logical explanation, which not only is dead wrong, but is the complete antithesis of what we stand for. Everything that we subscribe to is premised on logical scientifically-endorsed information, with a powerful resistance to illogical, or evidence-less information. Some of these ideas may eventually be proven incorrect (or correct), but we never state anything as fact in the first place because all we'll ever have are theories. Please refer to the foreword excerpt to understand that we do not 'believe' that facts exist:
> Let me say the last things, as a scientific mind i have, I know that universe started at the Bing Bang, is the theory most accepted, a theory, do you remember the meaning of that word?
Yes. Again, if you had taken the time to read our website first, you wouldn't find yourself making these most unfortunate incorrect assumptions. All of our posits are 'theories', without exception.
> But...how the big bang begins? Accumulation of mater, of course...and...where this mater begins?...in another universe, of course...and the beggining of the other universe? Have do you an explanation of that but Gods creation?
So much for science...
> Cos there is no circular logic explanations, a logical evidence has a beginning and an end...and I'm sorry, but you do not have explanation for that.
I do have a theory, but you're correct, I don't know for certain what the answer is, and I never, ever, once claimed otherwise. Most likely, we never will know that answer because there may be no way to tell. What is most 'un'scientfic, would be to take the lack of an answer, and put a mythological creature in that hole that has a near-zero logical premise for it being there. Plugging your god into the beginning of the universe has 'exactly' as much merit as plugging the Easter Bunny there.
My friend, you are taking the same desperate leap of 'faith' that all Intelligent Design pseudo-scientists attempt to take, in order to hang on to your precious immortality. There simply is nothing more to it than that, and there's nothing I can say or do to convince you otherwise. I won't repeat the same arguments that the weblog already contains. Please consider reading it.
> Other things is that many scientific people have proved the existence of "ethereal things" as you called it, with the best logic tool, Empiricism.
No my friend, that's not science, that's agenda-driven 'interpretation'. The term 'ethereal' itself, by definition, implies something otherworldly or spiritual, which science 'precludes' the existence of, and most certainly couldn't 'prove' because if science could 'prove' something 'ethereal', then it becomes part of 'science', not magic.
Kind regards,
Sean Sinjin
{All letters from this contributor: 17.234, 17.238}
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#235 - BetterHuman.org's financial motivations - January 06, 2007, 09:34 AM |
Hello Mr. Medread, and thank you for your statements regarding BetterHuman.org. You've helped me immensely in identifying where incorrect perceptions can take hold. As a result, I have made many changes to my website to better represent our organization.
In regard to our 'Contact Us' web page, we had the following:
"We do not take private donations from individuals"
To which you responded:
> Wow everything is clear now, they don't want members because they don't need them, it's obvious they live from donations from private institutions, the suffix ORG implies they are most surely receiving support from a (many) private (s) organisation (s).
Your assumptions are quite incorrect my friend. To date, BetterHuman.org has collected exactly 'zero' donations. Our entire website, advertising, book printing, and all expenses required to realize and sustain this effort has be entirely funded out of my own pocket.
Also, the purpose behind not accepting private donations is to prevent the paradigm of BetterHuman.org from ever becoming another Scientology that serves no other purpose than to take advantage of the innocent, insecure, or uneducated. By removing both the notions of membership and private donations from our inherent structure, it will be very difficult for future generations to contort our primary directive of education, into a monetary engine.
Your next statement:
> In other words they don't spread their view to make humanity free of terrible religion, but to justify their salaries and the donations from non particular private institutons
All members of BetterHuman.org are unpaid volunteers. All proceeds from book sales go directly back into the costs of advertising. Currently, after all expenses, we 'lose' approx $27 per book, for which I cover the gap from my personal income.
We are not about profit, we are only about education.
Your next statement:
> Their essential misssion on earth is to sell a book called Meme
My friend, it's impossible to print books for free. We also (decidedly) do not have the financial backing of millions of ethereal addicts like religions do and as such we have no choice but to necessarily recover some of the expenses related to publication by offering our literature at a more than fair price of ~$14, of which $10 goes immediately to printing and distribution. The remaining $4 can't begin to cover advertising costs.
Your next statement:
> So aren't they doing an evangelism of Atheism and acting exactly as a religion? The big diference is that SOME Evangelists are really concerned about the teachings, this guys have found a profitable business.
I believe you are confusing the term 'religion' for 'philosophy'. BetterHuman.org defines a religion as an organization that teaches mythology as fact, purporting the existence of ethereal entities (gods) or concepts (afterlife, reincarnation) in our universe. By this definition, we are the very antithesis of religion. However, to your intended point, we are indeed a 'philosophy', and yes, we are spreading our perceptions much like any other philosophical organization necessarily has to in order to be effective.
As for your accusation of evangelism, which I'm assuming is meant to imply profiteering off the innocent, again, please understand that BetterHuman.org is a non-profit organization that has spent 'thousands' of dollars more than it has earned, and we couldn't be happier with the results.
My friend, please make no mistake, you will be unable to point the 'con-artist' finger at BetterHuman.org. We are only here to educate, not profit.
And to your final statement:
> At least you can find a free Bible in any hotel
Incorrect my friend, those books are paid for by the millions of collection plate donations made by people who were conned into believing they are purchasing their way into a mythological afterlife. If you wish to continue promoting this sad abuse of their miseducation, feel free to enjoy reading your 'free' copy of the syringe of ethereal addiction.
Kind regards,
Sean Sinjin
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#236 - Separating communism from atheism - January 13, 2007, 10:50 AM |
walker@btinternet.com wrote:
> It is a good job that communism in its many forms:
> Marxism-Lenninism Marxism-Lenninism-Trotskyism Marxist-Lenninism-Stalinism Marxism-Lenninism-Stalinism-Maoism Marxism-Lenninism-Stalinism-Maoism-PolPotism Marxism-Lenninism-Stalinnism-Titoism Marxism-Lenninism-Stalinism-Hoxaism is not a MEME.
> How joyful it must have been to exist and die in one of Stalins gulag slave camps, the cold, starvation, back breaking work brought joy and happiness to millions who died in these camps. Religion, who needs it when there are great atheists like Marx, Lennin, Stalin, et alia.
My friend, you obviously haven't read anything on our website or weblog because if you did, you would understand the colossal gap between our philosophies and communism. Perhaps you would like to educate yourself about the ideals of BetterHuman.org first before making these completely unfounded and blindly prejudiced comparisons to communism.
Kind regards,
Sean Sinjin
{All letters from this contributor: 14.182, 17.236}
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#237 - Conveniently overlooking - January 13, 2007, 10:52 AM |
In regard to feedback from Mr. Ninework, I wrote:
Any presumed validity of the following:
> History is filled with the the scars of the secular_humanist religion, darwinian revolutions. And the time we are living in right now is also filled with the evil empires based on darwinism(atheism).
...has been rendered completely impotent by your subsequent statement...
> I am also aware of the horrifying history of "Christianity" and religion.I realize that not all of the world's problems can be attributed to atheism and secular humanism.
You're trying to demonize atheism for the same evils you admit of religion. Perhaps what you are unwittingly exposing isn't that ideologies are responsible for evil, it's that 'people' are; regardless of their beliefs?
> You need only to study the former USSR's history of torture and mass murder to find out what atheism is really about.
I'm sorry my friend, but that's just utter nonsense. Atheism has absolutely nothing to do with torture or mass murder, any less or more than religions do. People that choose to torture or murder do so because they have an agenda, not because atheism told them to do it. Your statement is the equivalent of stating, "People torture and murder others because they don't believe in Santa Claus".
> Checkout the tortures and persecutions now taking place in China and N.Korea and the revelation will be clear to all who seek it. I am well connected to world information through my news feeder. People are being imprisoned,tortured and killed in these secular countries,just for having bible studies!
This may be, but I'm sure you could point your news feeder to hundreds of sources of atheists being tortured by the faithful, and even the faithful torturing each other. Again, human mistreatment has nothing to do with atheism, what you are witnessing is solely the ill-effects of tyranny. Is it by choice that you avoid information contradicting your mission to unjustly demonize atheism?
> Also I would point to the moral decay in America since darwinism has become the required religion of this nation.
I'm more inclined to believe that substandard education and the greedy mindset of capitalism is responsible for your perceived decay of morality, and this momentum started in the 1700's when your country was formed, long before your bedeviled atheism could play a role.
Also, Darwinism isn't a religion (there's no ethereal elements to it), it's just a science, plus it doesn't remotely attempt to be a philosophy, nor does atheism. BetterHuman.org is what covers the gap between science, philosophy, and morality.
> Darwinists are seekers ,just like those who seek spiritual knowledge.They seek the answers to their existence through science. But science has now proven that life is far to complex to have evolved from nothing.
No my friend, science has not proven that life is too complex. You've unfortunately bought into the many pseudo-science Intelligent Design arguments that project nonsensical and highly subjective probabilities onto things that are readily explained by evolution. Please read the weblog for a great many articles on the fallacy of Intelligent Design.
Kind regards,
Sean Sinjin
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#238 - Is only one choice, a choice? - January 13, 2007, 10:54 AM |
Mr. Latchtorn wrote:
> .we are a result of evolution...But...is this a way to deny spirituality?
My friend, this is a very broad subject that is covered in great detail in the BetterHuman.org weblog. Please give it a read.
> One thing that my spirituality is not like you say in your website is that is not totalitarian. I believe in that cos I want to believe it.
Your religion has tricked you into thinking that you 'want' to believe, but you really have no choice 'but' to believe. I know that it is very difficult for you to see this, but they manipulate your psychology so that you think you are happy with your 'choice', but you don't realize that you're afraid to make a different choice because of the ethereal threats of punishment, and the loss of your immortality for doing so.
To put it differently, imagine you were in a room with four doors. One door will electrocute you if you touch it, another door is burning hot, the third door will explode if opened, and the fourth is made of glass and it shows you a wonderful paradise behind it. Now you 'choose' which door to open.
My friend, because of the 'doors' you perceive in your perspective, you really don't have a choice but to believe.
> What about Okham Razor (navaja de Okham in spanish) that's one of the most interesting scientific-philosophic theory that says "The most easy explanation is provably the correct", what else idea that a "thing" or a "god" or "goddess" that began all existence is easier than this one?
You did not define Occam's razor properly. It is not meant to imply the 'easiest' solution is the correct one, it's meant to imply the 'simplest' solution that 'completely' explains a phenomenon, should be the most correct one. Your god explanation may be 'simple', but it doesn't explain hardly anything, for example, where did your god come from? How did it create this universe? What exactly is your god?
You see, you can't answer these types of scientific questions with, 'It just is'. True, your god theory is a simpler solution than evolution, but if this solution cannot answer 'all' related questions, then the theory of 'god' is incomplete and cannot be proven true by using Occam's razor.
Thanks for writing,
Sean Sinjin
{All letters from this contributor: 17.234, 17.238}
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#239 - Choice is part of fate - January 13, 2007, 10:56 AM |
In regard to my statement:
"Certainly you understand that I cannot alter my fate?"
Mr. Catice wrote back:
> Shall we examine that one statement? To quote from one of the books in my library: "To build a philosophy of the universe on an exclusive materialism is to ignore the fact that all things material are initially conceived as real in the experience of human consciousness. The observer cannot be the thing observed; evaluation demands some degree of transcendence of [or separation from] the thing which is evaluated."
I disagree with the notion that 'the observer cannot be the thing observed'. I can observe myself very easily, and as such the stated theory above is rendered invalid.
> Consistency demands that you accept the consequences of there being no free will. If there is no volition (which, by the way, you claim to have exercised), your every perception, feeling, thought, word and deed are determined for you
Not quite, my friend, the illusion of 'volition' is also incorporated into 'fate'. That means 'fate' is making me believe I am 'choosing' my path.
> . In fact, there is no "you," no independent perceiver of perceptions. There is only mechanism and the illusion of a perceiver. The notion of the "credibility of perceptions" is therefore no more meaningful--and no less inevitable--than a rock falling to the ground.
This is a good example of 'running with assumptions' (which we all do). You've extended your incorrect argument that we cannot observe ourselves (which you can easily prove incorrect by looking into a mirror), and somehow have twisted that perception into equating all perspectives (??). What does the nature of the observer have to do with the ultimate credibility of a given model of the universe?
> (Hmmm. Maybe this explains why you sound so bitter.)
Do I sound bitter? I'm just trying to help people, why would I necessarily be bitter? That wouldn't make a lot of sense. I believe the bitterness you perceive in me is a reflection of the bitterness you feel towards me, but rest assured my ethereally addicted friend, I hold no malice toward you, or my similarly addicted brothers and sisters. I see you as victims, not opponents.
> Your message is a "red herring." Religion's underlying message of a living and personal God is not invalidated by ruthless individuals taking advantage of the innocent and the ignorant.
You're trying to isolate on the 'high' of ethereal addiction by admitting to and exposing the tyranny that surrounds it. But what you don't realize is that the notion of god only exists 'because' of the tyranny. If there were no churches to continue poisoning the minds of people with fantasy, then science would be able to clear the fog of perception, and reality education would finally liberate us from the traps of maddening mythology.
My good friend, the only form in which your god exists, is as a tool of religious tyrants.
Kind regards,
Sean Sinjin
{All letters from this contributor: 17.229, 17.239}
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#240 - Never be afraid to ask questions - January 13, 2007, 11:00 AM |
Ms. Cagemy wrote:
> Hey I'm might only be 13 but I know U R wrong God is REAL And I don't care what U think because I have been SAVED BY JESUS MY SAVIOR I have also experinced real miracles by my own eyes and I will do what ever it takes to save as many people as I can!!!
Would you believe that when I was nearly your age that I professed the same kind of statements as yours above? That's right, a long time ago, I too used to be 'exactly' where you are, believed what you believed, and fought for it with all my heart. A lot has changed in my life since then.
I won't try to tell you about the complexities of reality because when I was you, I didn't want to hear anything else either. You're devoted to your beliefs, and there's probably little I can do about that right now. I respect the degree of your conviction because I know you believe you are doing the right thing, and that is very noble. So if some day you grow older and come to understand things differently, don't ever be ashamed of how you feel today; your heart is in the right place.
There's only 'one' thing I want to ask of you, and that is: don't ever be afraid to ask questions. There is no such thing as a question that shouldn't be asked, so when you find yourself asking questions to people that refuse to give a clear, reasonable answer, then you must understand that they probably don't really know, or are trying to hide something from you.
Do you remember when you were a young kid and everyone in the world played along with the whole Santa Claus story? Your parents would tell you that he lives at the North Pole and he's going to bring you gifts every year if you're good. Not to mention seeing Santa everywhere at the shopping malls, or TV, etc. He was everywhere and everyone told you he was real.
Then one day you figured out he wasn't real, and that Santa was all just a big story that everyone plays along with to entertain the kids. Must feel pretty smart for figuring out the truth right? Nobody's going to fool a young adult like yourself with kid's stories.
How about the Tooth Fairy? Or the Easter Bunny? They turned out to be just stories as well. So, if all these creatures ended just being fairy tales to entertain kids, then why do 'some' people still believe in a god?
The answer is that a long time ago, someone said that this 'god' creature could make you live forever. Whoa! That's big. That's a lot more valuable than any presents from Santa, or chocolate eggs from the Easter Bunny. So, even though 'most' people grow out of believing in Santa Claus, a lot of people still refuse to believe that there is no god to save them from death.
This is where you are my young friend, you are surrounded by an ancient fairy tale that unfortunately has a lot of people fooled. People want so badly to believe they won't die, that they will believe in this god story no matter how incredible, magical, mysterious, improvable, and unexplained it is.
These people eventually grow up into adults that look big on the outside, but on the inside, their minds are still like a young child that is scared of dying. And now that they look like adults, they believe they should be telling everyone to believe in this god creature so that others will be saved too. This is why so many people believe in this god story, because everyone keeps telling everyone it's true. But, the number of people that believe in something doesn't necessarily make it true.
Would you believe that it wasn't too long ago that everyone on Earth thought the world was flat? Seriously! When Christopher Columbus came to America over 500 years ago, they were afraid of falling off the edge of the flat Earth. Can you imagine? it seems ridiculous to us now because science has taught us that the world is round, but back in those days, they didn't have the science education we do, and everyone just believed the world was flat because it looked flat, and since everyone else believed it was true, it just was just an assumed fact. Well, that fact was wrong, and no matter how many people believed the world was flat, they were 'all' wrong. Millions and millions of people were all completely and totally wrong.
So what I'm trying to tell you is that it does not matter how many people believe in something, because they could easily all be wrong, and yes, even I could be completely wrong with my website. But I'm not trying to say that my website is right, I'm trying to get you to see that despite all that you've been told, and despite all the people that believe in a god creature...they can all be wrong.
As you grow older my friend, you will learn the wicked ways of humans, and you will learn the real reason that churches exist (to take people's money), and you will eventually understand there is no difference between a god, and Santa Claus, for they are all myths, one just has better presents.
Please remember, all I ask is that you 'never' hold back from asking questions, no matter how much other people try to avoid answering you. Asking questions is the path to becoming a wise adult, and unless you start asking those questions, your mind will never grow.
If you have any questions for me, please don't hesitate to ask, I am always here.
With respect,
Sean Sinjin
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#241 - Freeing Meme - January 17, 2007, 10:10 PM |
Hi all,
Today I have decided to liberate Meme. The EBook version can now be freely downloaded from BetterHuman.org website. Apologies to those I may offend that have graciously purchased a version whom may otherwise not have if they'd been given the option of a free copy.
This decision comes at the fruition of a long-standing inner-conflict I've suffered between trying to justifiably offset operating costs, and trying to get Meme's message out. When I became aware of just how many people around the world simply cannot even afford $5 for the EBook, well that put it all in perspective for me, and I must admit some shame for letting money pollute and detract from the best interests of the BetterHuman.org mission.
Asking for your forgiveness for this intolerable shortsightedness, and hopefully with your support, I believe this course change will much improve our effectiveness by making freely available 'all' that BetterHuman.org has to offer. Book purchases will now be strictly voluntary.
With respect,
Sean Sinjin
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#242 - Good decisions - January 27, 2007, 08:01 PM |
In regard to my statement:
"Today I have decided to liberate Meme"
Ms. Ronework wrote:
> I am proud of you. The message is more important. Thank you.
I grow happier by the day about that decision.
Sean Sinjin
{All letters from this contributor: 17.242, 19.269}
#243 - Diminutive atheists - January 27, 2007, 08:05 PM
Mr. Sumbliss wrote back:
> Dear Sean, Nice move offering the ebook for free. I thought about suggesting it to you, but you beat me to it!
I hope many people will benefit from it.
> What do you think about Richard Dawkins' "The God Delusion"? I highly suggest the following video: LINK
Very interesting video, yet I'm quite disappointed that the majority of his focus was on 'ridiculing' the religious mindset, treating them like idiots. He's, perhaps purposely, creating a larger void between atheism and the religious, instead of attempting to bridge that gap. So very counterproductive and insensitive. It seems the way of many atheists to 'show off' their intellectual prowess and impose hierarchy over our less fortunate brothers and sisters. In my opinion, that's not going to encourage religious people to explore atheism because they will only see it as a bullying paradigm.
Regards,
Sean Sinjin
{All letters from this contributor: 15.191, 16.214, 16.216, 17.243}
#244 - The power of prayer... - January 27, 2007, 08:08 PM
Mr. Quinaid wrote:
> :) So Here is the challenge... I am going to pray right now (saturday morning 1/28/07 9:10 am est.) that God proves. That God is real, to you and your whole group. Beyond any shadow of doubt. And furthermore... that you all believe in God and yeshua His son.
Well my friend, the time has come and passed, and your purported miracle has failed to realize itself. Now I don't mean to mock you, but imagine if I had wrote the following to you:
"So Here is the challenge... I am going to pray right now (saturday morning 1/28/07 9:10 am est.) that Zeus proves that Zeus is real, to you and your whole group, beyond any shadow of doubt. And furthermore... that you all believe in Zeus and Macedon His son."
From our atheistic perspective, this statement has 'precisely' the same potency, legitimacy, and meaning as your original statement; as witnessed by the failure of your miracle to materialize. You might want to ask yourself how it is possible that your praying had absolutely no effect.
Please read the BetterHuman.org weblog for a great many articles that can explain tyrannized mythology to you, and you may come to understand why praying to your god, is the same as praying to Zeus.
With respect,
Sean Sinjin
{All letters from this contributor: 17.244, 18.246, 18.251, 18.257, 19.271, 19.274}
#245 - Death defying - January 27, 2007, 08:18 PM
Mr. Downlight wrote back:
> The dictionary includes my preferred definition of "religion," which is:6.something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice. I think any doctrine requiring "faith" or "belief" (apparently including yours) can be viewed as a loosely defined "religion," regardless of how you abhor the term.
This is one of those unfortunate word-definition topics that will unavoidably resurface infinitum, as witnessed many times in the weblog, so I'm going to try very hard to nail it down in this entry. The first thing to mention is that the words 'religion' and 'faith' unfortunately have many different meanings, some that apply to us, some that don't. For 'religion', the only definitions that apply to us would be those that indicate a 'perspective', 'philosophy', 'morality', or perhaps even a 'following' (though we try not to promote that mentality). The definitions of 'religion' that wouldn't apply to us would be those that encapsulate 'ethereal belief', 'worship', 'servitude', 'blind faith', 'afterlife', 'spirituality', 'cult', 'knowledge isolation', etc. Of course, any utilization of the word 'religion' in the BetterHuman.org vernacular, in entirely in the context of the ethereal version, and as such, we are not inadvertently condemning ourselves because of this wordplay. It's not the underlying structure of religion being a 'philosophy' that we oppose, it's the content it supports.
When most people read the word 'religion', they make some default assumptions about what that represents, typically including a great number of the ethereal qualities listed above, of which none do we subscribe to. This makes 'religion' a very inaccurate choice of word to describe us if that word is chosen only because we match the philosophical or perspective version of the definitions. Coining BetterHuman.org a religion, makes as much sense as saying that all dogs are poodles, simply because all poodles are dogs. We're a philosophy. Religion's a philosophy. That doesn't mean all philosophies are religions.
Faith is another tricky word with many meanings. It can mean that someone is 'pretty sure' about something, which would include us, but the more contemporary utilization of 'faith' is the definition that implies 'blind' faith, as in the considering of something supernatural as fact. We at BetterHuman.org don't believe in facts (as our foreword excerpt will attest to), we operate on evidence-founded probabilities, with the ability to adjust to new information that may contradict previously accepted information. This is the difference between us and a 'faith', we don't hold anything as fact, whereas the 'faith'ful treat their knowledge-base as irrefutable fact, even in the face of indisputable evidence to the contrary. So as with 'religion', we resist being considered a 'faith' because its default definition of 'blind' acceptance doesn't apply to us.
My friend, to call us a religion or faith is to be both right and wrong at the same time, and that's nothing short of confusing. This isn't to say that these words are wrongly applied to us when only the correct definitions are used, but it is to say that there are many other much more 'correct' and less obscure words that 'entirely' apply to us (philosophy, perspective, moral code, conviction) that do not incite misunderstanding as to what we represent.
> Also, my personal philosophy, gleaned during my 81 years on the planet, includes the idea that, as conscious states are correlates of brain states, so does every concrete object have an abstract correlate. (even if it be simply its information content)
You'll have to elaborate on the above. I think I know where you're going with this but it would help if you clarify the connection you're identifying.
> a) WHY DO YOU INSIST THAT RELIGION REQUIRES BELIEF IN AN ETHEREAL BEING? (the Marxists I have known were every bit as "religious" as my fundamentalist relations)
Again, more wordplay (please don't take that as a derision my friend). If you were to ask any random person on the street to give their first definition of 'religion' off the top of their head, they're almost certainly going to identify an ethereal-based religion. Let me rewrite your statement with more accurate terminology to make my point clear:
"Why do you insist that a religion requires blind faith in an ethereal being? The Marxists I have known were every bit as 'convicted' to their 'philosophy' as my ethereally-addicted relations were to their ethereal-based religion"
I hope this new version makes obvious how obfuscated terminology was responsible for the confusion in the original. Your Marxist friends subscribe to a completely different definition of 'religion' as you've applied it.
> b) Where is, in your philosophy, the distinction between what you call "ethereal" and what I call abstract? (there does not appear to be much room for the abstract in your exposition)
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That's quite incorrect my friend, there's a great deal of abstraction in virtually everything that exists (we're only a pile of atoms after all). Again, a little wordplay that attempts to equate 'ethereal' with 'abstract'. Anything ethereal is generally an abstraction of our emotional desires, but not all abstractions are 'ethereal'. Our mission focuses on the preclusion of emotionally-derived abstractions (gods, afterlife, etc.) that do not have a logical foundation. We obviously do 'not' preclude logic-premised abstractions (consciousness, life).
...next letter
You previously wrote:
> "Without conciousness or awareness in the universe, it would be equivalent to its non existence; as value, judgement and even recognition are bestowed by consciousness"
To which I replied:
"You seem to demand that the 'existence' of anything is necessarily dependent upon its being 'perceived'"
And your response:
> I am trying to point out that consciousness (which you appear to relegate to a minor role)is our ultimate and prize possesion. (and there is the hypothesis that awareness DOES create the universe)
I personally cannot subscribe to the notion that our awareness of the universe has remotely to do with upholding its existence. If for no other reason than the universe could never have begun since it takes an incredible amount of time for us to have evolved to the point where we could even observe it. Prior to our existence, it necessarily had to survive without us to observe it.
Also, I too believe that our consciousness is our most valued possession. How do I relegate consciousness to a minor role? Do you perceive this because I reject the notion of applying supernatural immortality to it?
> Do you disagree that without an observer there could be no value judgement, and that without some"one" to pass judgement and percieve it, the universe would be "AS IF" worthless, useless, and non extant?
True, on value and judgment, these are very human-defined parameters and only have meaning within a human context, but again, this has no influence upon the concept of existence. As well, the terms 'worthless', or 'useless' are also only meaningful from a human perspective, though the universe cannot be considered in a 'worth' or 'useful' sense because it's impossible to commoditize the universe into a 'relative' asset. There's nothing to compare it to, and nothing we can do with it. It's where we live so it might technically be priceless, but since we can't do anything with it, it's simultaneously worthless. But, no matter how you may struggle to define the sales price of the universe, our human evaluation of it still has no bearing on whether it will exist or not.
> It is the same problem as my fear of non-existence rather than of death or dying.
Pain aside, I would like to point out that the fear of dying 'is' the fear of non-existence.
> Without my being aware, there is nothing for me.
This readily translates into the same religious statement, "What is the point of life without an afterlife?" You see, you're reformulating the same 'cannot accept death' infinite mental loop that eventually leads to the insanity of fantasy. There is no solution to death, no matter what the ego would have us believe. If you look at life with purely logical lenses, we are reproducing machines imbued with pleasure-seeking instincts that statistically promote reproduction. That's it. That's all there is to us. Our dynamic array of instincts and intelligence evolved 'solely' to help us with the social chess game of reproduction. There never was a greater plan than that.
To turn down the option of living in the here and now because you're disappointed with the fact of death, only means you're focusing entirely on the wrong thing. You can't 'think' of a way out of death, so stop thinking 'about' it. We're the only species that can ponder this concept and Mother Nature hasn't provided us with the instinctual ability to easily ignore it, but that is what we must do in order for it to not destroy our lives (e.g., directly with terror, or denialistically with fantasy pursuits).
Focus on living, and take joy from a humbler existence. You will find there is much to be garnered from life, despite that it will end.
> Without awareness of or in the universe, there is no witness to its existence. Equally, once the universe runs down, and there are no active memories; IT IS EQUIVALENT TO ITS NEVER HAVING BEEN.
In my book, Meme, I describe the universe as eventually collapsing into what I call a 'super-particle', which is essentially all the universe's bether gathered into one giant black hole. This is the same state the universe was in prior to the Big Bang. In this state, you are correct, all information is lost, and it will never be possible to know what happened in that brief period when the super-particle was expanded in the form of our universe. This is not the same as it having never existed however, because it did exist, it's just that now all the evidence to prove it did has disappeared. And (as many religious people will purport) a complete lack of evidence, doesn't mean it didn't happen. There may have been a great number of times that the universe has lived and died like this, with perhaps a trillions times as many never-to-be-known species of intelligent life. We'll never know because there's no evidence.
More importantly, however, is that the fate of the universe has exactly 'zero' affect on your life in the here and now. Your window of 'consciousness' only extends to the end of your life, so it is absolutely inconsequential to you what happens after your death. (Isn't it a Buddha-ism that states there's no point in pondering what happens after death?)
> So without enduring awareness, WHY BOTHER with anything except for the thrill of the current instant?
Because that's what we're designed to do, and that's what makes us the happiest. It's not pointless for us to pursue instinctual placations; in fact, it's pointless to pursue anything else, especially fantasy. Your ego is misdirecting you from finding happiness my friend. It's forcing your mind to chase a false sense of significance, and you're sacrificing precious intellectual integrity and potential happiness to try to placate it. Let go of the need for permanence, take stock of the time you have remaining, and maximize the caliber of it. Don't let the ego steal time from you.
> Considering that matter can be reduced to energy and energy is an abstract concept rather than a concrete particle,
Energy (in the scientific context indicated above) is not abstract, and is quite the opposite actually. It is a fundamental primitive that has many forms but is entirely physically represented (e.g. light waves in bether, spring tension, chemical potential, etc.). An abstraction implies something 'conceptual' as opposed to 'literal', like the notion of 'life' is an abstraction for the pile of atoms it is composed of. Abstractions are also not directly 'quantifiable', like our consciousness is difficult to measure without reducing observations to its underlying physical structure. Abstractions are also generally 'more' or 'different' than the constituents that create it (greater than the sum of its parts) like our consciousness is a complex abstraction of the much simpler chemical activity in our brains. Energy itself, however, is not composed of constituents; it is pure and directly measurable, no matter which form it takes. Its mutability alone does not qualify it as an abstraction.
It may be fair to state that the term 'energy' can be used in an abstract way, such as "She has a lot of energy", but I volunteer that this euphemistic utilization of the term 'energy' is a completely different word than the scientific term discussed above, and is more akin to 'power', or 'excitability'.
> can conceive of the reverse paradigm that AWARENESS, or consciousness, as the most abstract of the abstracts, can be assumed as the fundamental GROUND OF BEING, (one or more hard core physicists hold this view)
I think the rewording to 'ground of perceiving' is more accurate because a rock 'exists' despite that it can't perceive itself. I also don't believe that our awareness can be considered the most abstract of abstracts, because en masse, our population again creates an 'abstract' consciousness (called an H-freak in my book, Meme). Any collection of mechanisms that interact with a set of order-premised rules, creates further 'conscious' abstractions, unto infinite layers. This being said, it's important to note that any abstraction of consciousness must ultimately always have its energy conducted upon a physical arrangement of matter, therefore it is mortal.
> MY POINT TO YOU IS THAT IT IS TO EARLY TOO CLOSE THE BOOK AND FALL INTO THE BELIEF THAT YOU KNOW THE FINAL ANSWER,,
Forgive me my brother if I seem blunt or perhaps callous with my diatribes. I know you seek some flake of evidence that suggests our consciousness lives forever, as our ego would have us believe, but this is the same desperate path that every religious person, Intelligent Design advocate, cult member, Scientologist, transhumanist, etc. pursues, and that path leads nowhere because immortality is entirely an emotional abstraction.
I am not yet capable of understanding what it must be like to be in my twilight years as you are now, because I am still young, full of invincibility-inducing hormones, youthful vigor and aspirations, powerful paternal instincts, and all the thoughts of grandeur and purpose that neatly combine to constantly distract me from the inevitable time that I can no longer ignore my approaching death. It sits there though, that thought, that fear of nonexistence, that same fear that had led trillions through wasted lives of pursuing fantasy in order to dodge death.
I believe it haunts a strong mind more than a weaker one, because for them, there is no escape. The sedative of fantasy fails to take hold, and ruminations of defiance and nobility in the face of death dissolve into almost childish nonsense, for those human traits only have value as an act of communion; and a keen mind knows that at the time of death, there's only you.
I cannot predict how I will die, how much terror I'll feel...Will I go insane trying to deny it? Will I have the strength to face it like a 'man'? Will Mother Nature be kind and bless me with a pleasurable departure (white light of love, aka serotonin release)? We just won't know until the moment arrives. I so very badly want to believe that I will be ready to die when it comes, hopefully having led a long fulfilling life with many dreams coming true, many goals met, and lots of love surrounding me. I want to believe that all it takes to die happy, is to be happy when I die. If I die suddenly, well, not much torture in that, but as I get older, it's the knowing I'm going to die soon that I will grow to fear. To combat that fear, I believe it's important to visualize my final moments because it takes the darkness out of the event, removes the big black question mark, and removes the loneliness. I'm certain it will be painless, given the wonder of medicine, and I'm certain that some of the fear will also be chemically mitigated so that doesn't worry me too much. So what's left?
The ego. This is your struggle my friend, and mine, and all of humanity's. The return to nothingness is the direct antagonist to our polar opposite ego. The same ego that propels our intelligence, that propagates our species, that gives meaning and purpose to everything we do, is the demon that turns death, the most natural part of life, into an unbearable monster. How can we reconcile the ego's obsession for eternity, against the inevitable unfathomable end?
We are nothing more than bacteria plaguing the Earth.
Think very long about that fact my friend, because therein lays your escape from the terror of nonexistence.
With much respect,
Sean Sinjin
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